Hi guys, I'd like to answer to Q.7. I think the reason why fundamentalist christian in America condemn the fantasy, particularly Harry Potter is that they believe, "fantasy equals deceit."In other words, according to Taub and Heather (2003) "fantasy and story telling will lead to lying and other deceitful behavior and this factor combines with the necessity to protect their children from evil forces in the fantasy world.(p.54)
7. According to Cockrell, I think one of the reasons the religious right in the US condemns fantasy, especially Harry Potter, is "J. K. Rowling's equation of magic with science" (page 220). She "suggests the existence of witches and wizards, and for workable magic, in the world we inhabit here and now" (page 219).
As sited from The Crafty Reader in page 220, hundreds years ago before magic and science were separated, they were called "natural philosophy". At some point where these two parted, science became true natural philosophy while magic became false natural philosophy. However, in Harry Potter, they are "two true different visions of the world," and "Muggle science is a substitute for magic". These lead to the Christian fundamentalist hypothesis that if "the monsters and miracles of the Bible are literally true, in all their ferocious splendor, then the unseen world must indeed exist". (page 220) Thus the line that devided fact and fiction becomes vague and the question of which is real and unreal emerges.
This reason alone might not be enough to form the "Anti-Harry fervor", considering Harry Potter is, after all, children fiction. But let us not forget how famous and powerful the book is, and the phenomena of how readers around the world react to it. There are even communities on the internet which contribute news about what is happening around Hogwarts and that magic part of the world.
Last but not least, Harry does not live in another world, unlike some novels, but on Privet Drive in London. There is a sense that "he lives in our world," (page 218) and "he lives where we live," (page 219) then what else could make him more realisitc?
Speaking of which, I have a story to share with you guys. My brother was studying in a Christian American international school in Thailand many years ago when the first Thai edition of Harry Potter was published and people were raved about it. His school then imposed a rule that nothing concerning Harry Potter, whether it was a novel itself, a bag, or a pencil, could be brought to school. However, one day when a classroom's door was locked and their teacher forgot to bring the key, my brother and his classmates started chanting "Alohomora!" which, according to Harry Potter book, is a spell used to unlock doors. Suddenly the teacher turned to them and said, "This is not Hogwarts, school of witchcraft and wizardry!" in an angry and irritated tone of voice.
I know it might not make any sense to some of you, taking fiction so seriously. However, if we were to put ourselves in some religious people's shoe, Harry Potter could be a threat to what they have been teaching their children. It came nicely, graciously as an exercise for the children's imagination, and before they were aware of it, the children were casting spells, believing they were performing witchcraft.
8. He defends the magic power in Harry Potter as neutral power, as mentioned in the text, "[b]ut this magic lacks a god or a devil at the heart of it" (page 222).
Traditionally people view magic as the power from either god or devil which also implies that it will be the good power or the bad one. Thus some people tended to take sides when it comes to witchcraft in Harry Potter. But Harry Potter does not imply the power of good nor evil. Just as Rowling said that "magic in Harry Potter's world is a skill to be mastered, that it has no connection with religion or theology, or with supernatural spirits good or bad" (page 220).
Some experimental theologians may argue that the heart of such magic power lies God. According to Cockrell, however, Rowling's magic is more intended to be a mystery and it is the person who uses it to choose whether to make it into good or evil.
To answer the sixth question, firstly, I think that the modern media also contains TV, movie and advertisement and internet. However, I also think that many video games or PC games, RPG games relate to the fantasy genre. Because these video games must be designed by some game creators. And some video games must be designed from the fantasy genre, such as Lord of the Ring, Harry Potter and so on.
What I especially want to mention about is the role-play. People are able to choose any role from the video game whoever they like to do so. From playing the game, they can experience different feeling which all differs from their own world, or from the movie and the advertisement. For example, they would see dragons from the game “Lord of the Ring.” Also, they would see wizard in the video game “Harry potter”. Not only the fantasy will make the game designers have more sense to design the video game, but also the players could experience the fantasy adventure by playing the video games. After they finish playing the game, they would know that the final result is.
Finally, it would attract people to play the video game if they have already read the fantasy story before. To be specific, after I have finishing reading the book “Lord of the Ring”, I would prefer to play the video game “Lord of the Ring” as soon as possible.
It is impressive how your brother's teacher know that is a spell from HP's to unlock a door.
On another note, I do wonder if HP is indeed written for the kids? It is ridiculous to see the amount of adults reading it on the bus.
Perhaps it is all about the marketing, which attracts the readers at the first place. (without the 'right' marketing tactics, HP will just be another book that only nerds read)
However, I must've agree Rowling had created characters that the readers learn to care for. This must've be one of the main reason why the HP's series is so addictive. We all want to find out what happen to Ron or Hermoine or Hagrid.
Yet, HP seems to be puerile in comparison with wizard of earthsea with all the angsty teenage boy attitude thingy.
ps: sorry, i know im not in your discussion group, but i cant resist in posting a comment in reply to your fantastic answer. :)
You're quite welcome pear jin :) I was also peeking in other popgenres blogs last night, reading fan fiction's ideas. I already have the draft in my head. It was just pure curiosity that I wanted to know how my classmates' idea about the fan fiction were like. Some of them are really interested and I am definitely going back to read more hehe.
To answer your question, I think their teacher guessed that it was from Harry Potter. I mean it was not so difficult to say because there were not many books most of the kids would be reading at the same time. But maybe it was because she was a real fan and reading it before bed every night, secretly, at home, who knows? :P
I have read some articles about Harry Potter but I am still not sure about if it was intended for kids. I agree that perhaps it is all about the marketing at first. Also I remember reading something about its story and its characters which appeal adults because, in Harry Potter, victory is never easy to achieve, there is a struggle, even sometimes a sacrifice. There is no perfect characters, no perfect solutions. The well-known hero with a scar on his forehead himself also makes mistakes and is uncertain about his decisions, just like us. It is not a kind of story that when you flip your wand, anything could be solved; These are pretty much like real life: what we are, what we have been through, and what the world is like.
Harry Potter's magic does not work with my parents though :P They brought my brother and I to the cinema to watch Harry Potter I-IV, but they are never really interested in it.
By the way, I am not a HP fan, just to let you know. I was, once in high school when the books were much more interesting (that's purely my opinion!) My friends and I even pretended to be Hermione, Ron, and the others. (No Harry because we didn't like him haha) That seemed to be some time ago before the book got tedious for my friends, my brother, and me. To be honest, I haven't finished book 6 yet :P
I liked Harry Potter but, since I love reading, I also read other books and feel that some of them should be much more popular, compared to Harry Potter. If you ask me to list down 10 of the best books I have read, Harry Potter series are surely not in there.
Sorry, I think I am not really answering Paul's questions but I have a nice time reading your opinion and typing mine here. I don't mean to be against you about HP though. It's just I sometimes feel like a minority, being one of few people who think HP was fun but is getting more tedious, and didn't really have a place to express it :P
I feel like jean's opinion for Q.8. Cockrell support for the fantasy literature is, because of the magical dimension in fantasy literature,as he cites Zip's assertation: " clearly moralistic and didactic and preach against the evil use of magic in Harry Potter(p.219)." The magic is not the equivalent of witchcraft, it is now approached scientifically.Also, the Bible records the occurence of demons and miracles which are trully believed by the christian fundamentalists. If so, it is possible that the unknown world as well as supernatural power should be exist in real world where we live. Therefore, the magic which often perceives and futher acts as sense of justice and fairness appeal readers' mind especially children who should learn what the evil and the good are in real world as Watt says " accept a certain set of teaching about what the world is like and about how people should live their lives (219)."
Q1. Tolkien's fairy-stories is fantasy writing. He defines fairy -stories is not stories about fairies. "it holds the seas, the sun , the moon, the sky; and the earth, and allthings that are in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted." (P.14))
A 'fairy-story' is one which touches on or uses Faerie, whatever its own main purpose may be: ssatire, adventure, morality, fantasy. The magic of Fawrie is not an end in itself, its virtue is in tis operation. It satisfies human desires by surveying the depths of space and time and by holding communion with other living things. (P.17)
Q.7 I agree with you all. From the Christian aspects, Cockrell also suggests in the first paragraph: ...J.K.Rowling is deliberately trying to indoctrinate our children in witchcraft and satanism or whether she's simply a deluded tool herself.
Furthermore, Cockrell points out that Harry Potter books encourage children to rebel against their parents, to questions their values, and to assume power for themselves - precisely what scholars of children's literature have long recognized as the purpose of children's books. These are obviously against what the Bible said. (Cockrell, 2004)
Q.7 I'd like to add some more to this question. According to Cockrell (2004), the popularity of fantasy is one of the reasons the religious right in the US attaches fantasy, Harry Potter in particular. "Today the experience of reading for the young is mediated through the mass media and marketing so the pleasure and meaning of a book will often be pre-scripted or dictated by convention" (as sited on P. 24 in Cockrell,2004) Personaly, I strongly agree with this point. However, popularity will never ever affect my taste. Last night, my son told me that he read all HPs, including the new book though he understands HP is banned at his school, a Christian college. He read them because they are popular. He doesn't believe the stories because they are unreal. These are his answer. He does not need my guidance.
As Cockrell mentions,"There is no escape. If it wants to find you, it will find you." Popular culture is everywhere. If people have interest in it, let's read it and talk about. If people have no interest in it, it will disappear.
Q. 8 Cockrell defends fantasy literature in the following ways: First, Cockrell quotes Kimbra Wilder Gish's opinion that one can give in responding to a challenge based on these beliefs is to say, 'But they (demons, witches,ect.) aren't real!' In contrast, Kimbra also points out that "when you believe that witches and occult practices are real, and contrary to God's laws, those books are quite different from what the authors probably intended". It is frightening when such an idea influences these people's children. Parents may feel their authority is threatened.
Secondly, Cockrell reminds "Popular culture is everywhere,… There is no escape. if it wants to find you, it will find you. However, it is our choice to believe it or not.
Thirdly, Cockrell argues this magic in fantasy is a "device, not a philosophical or spiritual system of beliefs" Rowling insists that magic in Harry's world is a skill to be mastered, that it has no connection with religion or theology, or with supernatural spirits good or bad.
Moreover, Cockrell also argues whose truth is the true truth while nothing stays still. "Do not count on anything staying still" Rowling says to her reader too. This is a very interesting argument. Scientists also suggest nothing stays still.
At the end, Cockrell defend what Rowling trying to tell us is there is always something to be learned. And that interconnectedness is at the heart of Harry's sage. In conclusion, Harry frightens only those who want the answers to be the same every time the question is asked.
17 comments:
1. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy?
2. Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader?
3. Is Tolkien’s notion of the ‘faery story’ linked to fantasy genre? How closely?
4.What parallels can you find between A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter franchise?
5.What other influences does Burn (2005) suggest for Harry Potter?
6.How does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games?
7.Why does the religious right in the US condemn fantasy, according to Cockrell (2004)?
8. On what grounds does Cockrell defend fantasy literature, using Harry Potter for exemplification?
Is there anybody out there... out there... there....
Hi guys, I'd like to answer to Q.7. I think the reason why fundamentalist christian in America condemn the fantasy, particularly Harry Potter is that they believe, "fantasy equals deceit."In other words, according to Taub and Heather (2003) "fantasy and story telling will lead to lying and other deceitful behavior and this factor combines with the necessity to protect their children from evil forces in the fantasy world.(p.54)
Hi everyone :)
7. According to Cockrell, I think one of the reasons the religious right in the US condemns fantasy, especially Harry Potter, is "J. K. Rowling's equation of magic with science" (page 220). She "suggests the existence of witches and wizards, and for workable magic, in the world we inhabit here and now" (page 219).
As sited from The Crafty Reader in page 220, hundreds years ago before magic and science were separated, they were called "natural philosophy". At some point where these two parted, science became true natural philosophy while magic became false natural philosophy. However, in Harry Potter, they are "two true different visions of the world," and "Muggle science is a substitute for magic". These lead to the Christian fundamentalist hypothesis that if "the monsters and miracles of the Bible are literally true, in all their ferocious splendor, then the unseen world must indeed exist". (page 220) Thus the line that devided fact and fiction becomes vague and the question of which is real and unreal emerges.
This reason alone might not be enough to form the "Anti-Harry fervor", considering Harry Potter is, after all, children fiction. But let us not forget how famous and powerful the book is, and the phenomena of how readers around the world react to it. There are even communities on the internet which contribute news about what is happening around Hogwarts and that magic part of the world.
Last but not least, Harry does not live in another world, unlike some novels, but on Privet Drive in London. There is a sense that "he lives in our world," (page 218) and "he lives where we live," (page 219) then what else could make him more realisitc?
Speaking of which, I have a story to share with you guys. My brother was studying in a Christian American international school in Thailand many years ago when the first Thai edition of Harry Potter was published and people were raved about it. His school then imposed a rule that nothing concerning Harry Potter, whether it was a novel itself, a bag, or a pencil, could be brought to school. However, one day when a classroom's door was locked and their teacher forgot to bring the key, my brother and his classmates started chanting "Alohomora!" which, according to Harry Potter book, is a spell used to unlock doors. Suddenly the teacher turned to them and said, "This is not Hogwarts, school of witchcraft and wizardry!" in an angry and irritated tone of voice.
I know it might not make any sense to some of you, taking fiction so seriously. However, if we were to put ourselves in some religious people's shoe, Harry Potter could be a threat to what they have been teaching their children. It came nicely, graciously as an exercise for the children's imagination, and before they were aware of it, the children were casting spells, believing they were performing witchcraft.
8. He defends the magic power in Harry Potter as neutral power, as mentioned in the text, "[b]ut this magic lacks a god or a devil at the heart of it" (page 222).
Traditionally people view magic as the power from either god or devil which also implies that it will be the good power or the bad one. Thus some people tended to take sides when it comes to witchcraft in Harry Potter. But Harry Potter does not imply the power of good nor evil. Just as Rowling said that "magic in Harry Potter's world is a skill to be mastered, that it has no connection with religion or theology, or with supernatural spirits good or bad" (page 220).
Some experimental theologians may argue that the heart of such magic power lies God. According to Cockrell, however, Rowling's magic is more intended to be a mystery and it is the person who uses it to choose whether to make it into good or evil.
To answer the sixth question, firstly, I think that the modern media also contains TV, movie and advertisement and internet. However, I also think that many video games or PC games, RPG games relate to the fantasy genre. Because these video games must be designed by some game creators. And some video games must be designed from the fantasy genre, such as Lord of the Ring, Harry Potter and so on.
What I especially want to mention about is the role-play. People are able to choose any role from the video game whoever they like to do so. From playing the game, they can experience different feeling which all differs from their own world, or from the movie and the advertisement. For example, they would see dragons from the game “Lord of the Ring.” Also, they would see wizard in the video game “Harry potter”. Not only the fantasy will make the game designers have more sense to design the video game, but also the players could experience the fantasy adventure by playing the video games. After they finish playing the game, they would know that the final result is.
Finally, it would attract people to play the video game if they have already read the fantasy story before. To be specific, after I have finishing reading the book “Lord of the Ring”, I would prefer to play the video game “Lord of the Ring” as soon as possible.
Jean:
It is impressive how your brother's teacher know that is a spell from HP's to unlock a door.
On another note, I do wonder if HP is indeed written for the kids? It is ridiculous to see the amount of adults reading it on the bus.
Perhaps it is all about the marketing, which attracts the readers at the first place. (without the 'right' marketing tactics, HP will just be another book that only nerds read)
However, I must've agree Rowling had created characters that the readers learn to care for. This must've be one of the main reason why the HP's series is so addictive. We all want to find out what happen to Ron or Hermoine or Hagrid.
Yet, HP seems to be puerile in comparison with wizard of earthsea with all the angsty teenage boy attitude thingy.
ps: sorry, i know im not in your discussion group, but i cant resist in posting a comment in reply to your fantastic answer. :)
You're quite welcome pear jin :) I was also peeking in other popgenres blogs last night, reading fan fiction's ideas. I already have the draft in my head. It was just pure curiosity that I wanted to know how my classmates' idea about the fan fiction were like. Some of them are really interested and I am definitely going back to read more hehe.
To answer your question, I think their teacher guessed that it was from Harry Potter. I mean it was not so difficult to say because there were not many books most of the kids would be reading at the same time. But maybe it was because she was a real fan and reading it before bed every night, secretly, at home, who knows? :P
I have read some articles about Harry Potter but I am still not sure about if it was intended for kids. I agree that perhaps it is all about the marketing at first. Also I remember reading something about its story and its characters which appeal adults because, in Harry Potter, victory is never easy to achieve, there is a struggle, even sometimes a sacrifice. There is no perfect characters, no perfect solutions. The well-known hero with a scar on his forehead himself also makes mistakes and is uncertain about his decisions, just like us. It is not a kind of story that when you flip your wand, anything could be solved; These are pretty much like real life: what we are, what we have been through, and what the world is like.
Harry Potter's magic does not work with my parents though :P They brought my brother and I to the cinema to watch Harry Potter I-IV, but they are never really interested in it.
By the way, I am not a HP fan, just to let you know. I was, once in high school when the books were much more interesting (that's purely my opinion!) My friends and I even pretended to be Hermione, Ron, and the others. (No Harry because we didn't like him haha) That seemed to be some time ago before the book got tedious for my friends, my brother, and me. To be honest, I haven't finished book 6 yet :P
I liked Harry Potter but, since I love reading, I also read other books and feel that some of them should be much more popular, compared to Harry Potter. If you ask me to list down 10 of the best books I have read, Harry Potter series are surely not in there.
Sorry, I think I am not really answering Paul's questions but I have a nice time reading your opinion and typing mine here. I don't mean to be against you about HP though. It's just I sometimes feel like a minority, being one of few people who think HP was fun but is getting more tedious, and didn't really have a place to express it :P
I feel like jean's opinion for Q.8.
Cockrell support for the fantasy literature is, because of the magical dimension in fantasy literature,as he cites Zip's assertation: " clearly moralistic and didactic and preach against the evil use of magic in Harry Potter(p.219)." The magic is not the equivalent of witchcraft, it is now approached scientifically.Also, the Bible records the occurence of demons and miracles which are trully believed by the christian fundamentalists. If so, it is possible that the unknown world as well as supernatural power should be exist in real world where we live. Therefore, the magic which often perceives and futher acts as sense of justice and fairness appeal readers' mind especially children who should learn what the evil and the good are in real world as Watt says " accept a certain set of teaching about what the world is like and about how people should live their lives (219)."
Q1. Tolkien's fairy-stories is fantasy writing. He defines fairy -stories is not stories about fairies. "it holds the seas, the sun , the moon, the sky; and the earth, and allthings that are in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted." (P.14))
A 'fairy-story' is one which touches on or uses Faerie, whatever its own main purpose may be: ssatire, adventure, morality, fantasy. The magic of Fawrie is not an end in itself, its virtue is in tis operation. It satisfies human desires by surveying the depths of space and time and by holding communion with other living things. (P.17)
Q.7 I agree with you all. From the Christian aspects, Cockrell also suggests in the first paragraph: ...J.K.Rowling is deliberately trying to indoctrinate our children in witchcraft and satanism or whether she's simply a deluded tool herself.
Furthermore, Cockrell points out that Harry Potter books encourage children to rebel against their parents, to questions their values, and to assume power for themselves - precisely what scholars of children's literature have long recognized as the purpose of children's books. These are obviously against what the Bible said. (Cockrell, 2004)
Q.7 I'd like to add some more to this question. According to Cockrell (2004), the popularity of fantasy is one of the reasons the religious right in the US attaches fantasy, Harry Potter in particular. "Today the experience of reading for the young is mediated through the mass media and marketing so the pleasure and meaning of a book will often be pre-scripted or dictated by convention" (as sited on P. 24 in Cockrell,2004) Personaly, I strongly agree with this point. However, popularity will never ever affect my taste. Last night, my son told me that he read all HPs, including the new book though he understands HP is banned at his school, a Christian college. He read them because they are popular. He doesn't believe the stories because they are unreal. These are his answer. He does not need my guidance.
As Cockrell mentions,"There is no escape. If it wants to find you, it will find you." Popular culture is everywhere. If people have interest in it, let's read it and talk about. If people have no interest in it, it will disappear.
Q. 8 Cockrell defends fantasy literature in the following ways:
First, Cockrell quotes Kimbra Wilder Gish's opinion that one can give in responding to a challenge based on these beliefs is to say, 'But they (demons, witches,ect.) aren't real!' In contrast, Kimbra also points out that "when you believe that witches and occult practices are real, and contrary to God's laws, those books are quite different from what the authors probably intended". It is frightening when such an idea influences these people's children. Parents may feel their authority is threatened.
Secondly, Cockrell reminds "Popular culture is everywhere,… There is no escape. if it wants to find you, it will find you. However, it is our choice to believe it or not.
Thirdly, Cockrell argues this magic in fantasy is a "device, not a philosophical or spiritual system of beliefs" Rowling insists that magic in Harry's world is a skill to be mastered, that it has no connection with religion or theology, or with supernatural spirits good or bad.
Moreover, Cockrell also argues whose truth is the true truth while nothing stays still. "Do not count on anything staying still" Rowling says to her reader too. This is a very interesting argument. Scientists also suggest nothing stays still.
At the end, Cockrell defend what Rowling trying to tell us is there is always something to be learned. And that interconnectedness is at the heart of Harry's sage. In conclusion, Harry frightens only those who want the answers to be the same every time the question is asked.
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